cracked subframe on the integra....

[fume711]

yep....so i was driving into the school parking lot and it has those water channel dips. So i'm going slowly over the dip and crack....bang.....do'h.....yeah, so then I check under may car near the rear sway bar hoping that the gromet came off and that it was the metal bracket rubbing against the bar (it happened before and it was causing that same type of sound everytime i went over a speed bump). Looked at both endlinks and saw that they were fine. Then my eyes follow the sway bar to the bolts and WHAM, the bolts is attached to the nut, but the nut isn't attached to my subframe (is that the right part) anymore..... :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :sad: :sad: :sad: :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :thumbs_do :bash: :bash:

I'm so saddddd

so now everytime i go over a speed bump or one of those water channel thingys, my car makes a loud cracking sound....

Anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this? Will welding work? I'll prob be taking off the sway bar this sat since i don't have any tools in hayward....so sad....

[DOHC-LSR]

did the nut just come off the subframe or is the subframe actually ripped? A aftermarket sway antisway bar will put more stress on the subframe its attached to, and in more than one occassion has ripped apart subframes... like really rip them... not nuts coming of..... more like cracking the bottom of the car. Is this what happened to you?

[DOHC-LSR]

Also from the little I've read... the "tie bar" that you see under many cars (I'd say mostly ricers) is ONLY useful if there is a aftermarket anti-sway bar... I think its function is prevent the subframe from being ripped apart due to added stress from the anti-sway bar.

I think its retarded to put that tie bar there if you don't need it... I think ricers get it because you can SEE it... so its a cosmetic mod? Also... why does something made and installed to add regidity have fucking holes in it? I don't care if DC Sports made it... its stupid... there shouldn't be holes in the freaking thing.

[fume711]

so you're saying that i should of also have installed a "tie bar" along w/ the sway bar? yeah...not sure the difference between the two. but yeah....how would I go about fixing it without seeing butterflies fly out of my wallet the next time i open it.

yep

nm...i just saw ur first post...originally i just saw the second one w/o the first...nice

yep..it actually cracked from what i can see, but i need to jack it up some more to get a better view, i see the bolts and the nut on it and they are detached from the frame, and a long crack around that area too....

from what i read before putting it on..it was cuz of indentation on the integra subframe....so that the sway bar act like a wedge and pull it apart...then someone made a kit (beaks or bsq or something like that) to support it, and the sway bar i got from my uncle had those reinforcements (i believe), so i thought it wouldn't rip.

[DOHC-LSR]

Butterflies will probably have to fly... the correct way to fix it is to buy a new (or used.. if you want to go that route) subframe and have it welded in.

A band aid fix would be to weld the cracked area. This is a band aid because welds are stronger than the metal its welding, so most likely others parts near the weld... but not the welded area will start to rip/crack?

I guess it could be cheaper if you do a lot of work yourself... but isn't everything like that?

[DOHC-LSR]

then someone made a kit (beaks or bsq or something like that) to support it, and the sway bar i got from my uncle had those reinforcements (i believe), so i thought it wouldn't rip.

There are two kits, Beaks and BSQ. The BSQ is like a home depot version. The Beaks is nicer. I had the BSQ. These kits just help distribute the force of the mounting nuts to the subframe, so the plates exert distributed force and its not concentrated on the bolt & nut locations.

The Beaks and BSQ kits only fit the ITR sway bar I believe. I don't know what bar you have, how you "believe" it had the reinforcements. These would be metal plates that go between the bracket that holds the bar and the subframe.

I think if you want to go cheap, you can spot and patch weld up the damaged area and reinstall the STOCK anti-sway bar to reduce the stress in that location. Either way, careful while driving now... your suspension setup has changed... and if anything else breaks off... its going to change even more. So basically don't hang any turns... because the stress will probably break more stuff.:sad:

[fume711]

yeah.....i'm driving heckavaslow now...sux....from the way you're describing the kit, i think the neuspeed did not come with it...just an extra spacer thingymabob for the bolt into the bracket into the subframe....yep....most likely i might just weld it up, put on the stock one, and see where it goes from there....can i borrow your welder again? hahha....and keep it for a year haha.....but yeah....i think that's the only easiest way to do it.

[DOHC-LSR]

not sure if the welder is here. but yea you can if it is... if not... it might be at dave's place. The Type-RRRRRRRRRRRRR subframes are thicker and stronger.. so I guess the regular tegs weren't made to withstand a beefier bar back there.

The BSQ kit is basically a plate and a spacer.

http://www.geocities.com/bretq/mounting_kit.html
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=692

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v229/bretq/mounting_kit_diagram.jpg

[fume711]

yeah....i swear i have that yellow piece....but i'll double check...but i'm 90% sure it was there...that's why i didn't get that bsq kit....cuz i was looking at it and said...."i don't need that cuz my brackets look like that already."....yep...hope you have the welder...can't have the car out of commision...

does anyone know of any good welding places besides golden sun or watever that is called on 6th and bryant?

[fume711]

oh yeah...thanks rayc for the help haha....

[OneBoredBew]

if it didnt rip and the bolt just came off try looking at the ASR bar its like 200 dollars but it will guarentee not to rip ur subframe. i hear the bsq/beaks kit work but still seen/heard some ripping the subframe. heck i had the bsq one and my subframe tore, but thats what i get for running 23mm with stock springs =(

[fume711]

yeah.....at my quick glance at it..it looks like a rip in the subframe, not just the bolts....which sux so much arse....janky...i'll have to take a closer look on sat to see what really happened.

[affro]

Never had a car subframe on me break, but maybe this applies anyways:

On a bike (moto) the subframe is a nonessential 'stability/function' piece to the frame (which I think could be the same for the car, not sure), but you can literally ride a motorcycle with a straight frame and completely fucked up subframe (cracked, bent, twisted) without any adverse effects.

I had a bent/cracked subframe and had to fix it asap...got it welded cheap at the trackside vendor and just rode it. It was fine and no issues.

...except for the part where it started bucking under hard braking :trophy:

j/k

Hope you get it fixed, but I would go ala cheap ass and just weld the thing.

[fume711]

Hope you get it fixed, but I would go ala cheap ass and just weld the thing.

yep...this was what i was thinking...then i remembered...it's right next to the gas tank..and i don't know if i wanna be under the car welding w/ hot sparks flying all over the place right in front of the house.....

so now...i'm thinking yeah....might bring it to a shop to get it welded and let them deal w/ the safety hazards since they should have a lot more experience than me....
:sad:

[DOHC-LSR]

On a bike (moto) the subframe is a nonessential 'stability/function' piece to the frame (which I think could be the same for the car, not sure), but you can literally ride a motorcycle with a straight frame and completely fucked up subframe (cracked, bent, twisted) without any adverse effects.


The subframe is similar I guess to that of a bike. It not part of the actual frame, its tack welded to car. You can actually buy this subframe part as it is a replacable part, just like a door skin or rear quarter panel.

But adverse affect this would have in this specific situation is the rear anti sway bar mounts to this subframe, so without it... the rear bar is kinda hanging loose... and I would assume will change the car's suspension characteristics. I forget how the direct effects are but it WILL cause either oversteer or understeer when you mess with the front/rear sway bars.

[fume711]

yeah....after reading a bunch load of topics on h-t, most people are saying weld it back together, and then get the asr subframe brace....i do plan on continue driving this car like i did before the crack, so should i invest on this brace because i'm not too sure how good welds are.

would anyone else recommend buying this or have tried it? I do not want to replace the subframe since from what i read, could be costly due to labor of removing and welding a new one back on

oh yeah..anyone recommend a good welding place? or should i try byrant? rayw?

[DOHC-LSR]

don't know anything about the ASR bar... I heard some good things about the Comptech Kit. So I take it you don't need the welder anymore..

[fume711]

yeah...i just looked at it and it isn't as bad as some people posting on h-t. My two bolts ripped out, and there's some tear around the holes. Also, the metal was bent....so i'm thinking of bringing it to bryant to let them fix it....then afterwards thinking of getting the asr...i believe it's a whole plate that goes over the subframe, not just a bar, then your sway bar bolts onto that plate. yep.....

some people said comptech kits also rip out too..BUT there were no pictures provided so yeah...just hearsay...

[DOHC-LSR]

yeah...i just looked at it and it isn't as bad as some people posting on h-t. My two bolts ripped out, and there's some tear around the holes. Also, the metal was bent....so i'm thinking of bringing it to bryant to let them fix it....then afterwards thinking of getting the asr...i believe it's a whole plate that goes over the subframe, not just a bar, then your sway bar bolts onto that plate. yep.....

some people said comptech kits also rip out too..BUT there were no pictures provided so yeah...just hearsay...
I heard both about comptech.... possible for the ones who ripped it still REALLY take theri car to the limit.

[fume711]

yep nice.....took off my sway bar....luckily just the two passenger side bolts ripped out, and the hole. Not too big of a tear outside of the hole. Pretty good in a sense of what "could of" happened. Time to prob bring it to a body shop and get it hammered straight and weld the bolts back on and then get the asr kit...u think that's the best way? any suggestions, opinions? is it still safe to drive on it, the sway bar's off the car so it's just two holes there, with tears..the lower control arm looks a-o-k...

[OneBoredBew]

yes get teh ASR bar. Gordon runs it and it guarentee not to rip ur subframe again.

[DOHC-LSR]

yep nice.....took off my sway bar....luckily just the two passenger side bolts ripped out, and the hole. Not too big of a tear outside of the hole. Pretty good in a sense of what "could of" happened. Time to prob bring it to a body shop and get it hammered straight and weld the bolts back on and then get the asr kit...u think that's the best way? any suggestions, opinions? is it still safe to drive on it, the sway bar's off the car so it's just two holes there, with tears..the lower control arm looks a-o-k...
I think its still safe to drive, I think the car should be more tail happy now... so the car will probably corner really really shitty... try it in a lot and see if it drifts really easy now =D

[fume711]

um...yes...i guess i'll try the drifting...

but on another note....for a jdm bar, 23mm, i need new d bracket/bushings huh? will my stock endlinks work on this bar or do i also need new endlinks? this is just a question so i can get more details before i go buy anything....i'm still deciding on what's the best option to fix this prob

[LuKChuT]

Dont fix it Al, we can be "Team Rear Dubframe Damage"

Rich

[OneBoredBew]

for the jdm bar u need new bushings d brackets. u can reuse ur stock endlinks

[DOHC-LSR]

um...yes...i guess i'll try the drifting...

but on another note....for a jdm bar, 23mm, i need new d bracket/bushings huh? will my stock endlinks work on this bar or do i also need new endlinks? this is just a question so i can get more details before i go buy anything....i'm still deciding on what's the best option to fix this prob

http://forum.helluvafast.com/showthread.php?t=3108&highlight=sway
http://forum.helluvafast.com/showthread.php?t=764&highlight=sway
blast from the past :thumb_up:

[fume711]

yep....hmm...so if i can reuse my stock endlinks...that'll save me a bunch load of money....tight....

[fume711]

some cites

http://www.geocities.com/bretq/ (installation guide)
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=972231 (reuse stock endlinks)
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showArticle.asp?ArticleID=692
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1895475

from what i read...they recommend getting new bushings....i'm thinking of no unless someone has another opinion? anyone?

and lithium grease....is that the best bushing grease? or does anyone have another kind to recommend?

yep....as you can see..i'm trying to get this right the first time...and not have any more tears/rips....

[spooky0317]

um...yes...i guess i'll try the drifting...

no, the rear end is actually gonna stay more planted with teh bar off. no drifting for you.

try out those ES graphite impregnated bushings. and i think silicon grease werks better than white lithium grease. or you can use teflon tape.

[DOHC-LSR]

no, the rear end is actually gonna stay more planted with teh bar off. no drifting for you.



You sure about that? Haven't tried it myself but I would think the without the bar attached the back would be looser

[fume711]

i'm guessing he's sayin there's no wheel hop without the bar? or i may be all wrong since i'm car illiterit (sp?). also, teflon tape? or would silicon grease be best? is this the same silicon grease that u use to lube up power window tracks?
ES graphite impregnated bushings? a mouth full, but what's so good about those?

[DOHC-LSR]

any new "breaking" news? Was the impact gun with a REAL compressor able to take it off? I hope so...

[fume711]

yep...drove my car to elbert's..use his and burst it a couple times and finally it slowly came off
the hole bolt was rusted on...like those grooves on the shaft of the bolt..those were filled with rust...janky....but yeah..car is good and driving with a :thumb_up:

[spooky0317]

You sure about that? Haven't tried it myself but I would think the without the bar attached the back would be looser

if you mean by looser, that the rear suspension is more independent of one another, then you are right sir. the rsb will keep the rear of als car flatter as he goes thru a turn. it does this by transmitting the compression force from the suspension of one side to the other. this in turn results in the back actually having less traction which equates to more oversteer in a turn. i hope all this sounds right...?... u know how things sometimes sound perfect in ur head but all retarded on paper.

[copymaster003]

REMEMBER... I still have 2 boxes of DB8 stuff from my car if you are missing bolts, buttons, hoses... etc etc... Feel free if anyone needs anything...

Also, I still got the:

PLX M300 WideBand Monitor

&

ELECTROSYSTEMS INTEGRALINK Programmable ECU

If anyone is interested...